Author Topic: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo  (Read 9324 times)

Skwiziks

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2013, 07:52:01 PM »
No Wait!  Something is muddled because it is cast in light but obscured at the same time!

Muddle = Murk + Radiant

Coby

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2013, 10:14:17 PM »
Skwiziks, resident alchemist.

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Vasae

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2013, 01:41:36 AM »
This may be off base...but since we have an Elementalist is there some connection with the Delvers Drop Elements and the Classical Elements of Western Alchemy? Something like

Fury: Fire
Fount: Water
Foundation: Earth
Force: Air

And then I suppose Planescape from Advanced D&D with the relation to Radiant and Murk effecting the formulation of the other elements in Surge, Strike, Sunder and Subdue?

Quady14

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2013, 12:46:36 PM »
That sounds like a pretty solid theory, makes a lot of sense!

Maybe the S elements refer to secondary elements somehow connected to the primary ones, Surge would likely be lightning based on the name, Strike might be an offshoot of Force's connection to Earth, Sunder might be closer to Foundation, maybe like a quake ability? Maybe metal, or perhaps poison or otherwise corruption, (I'm still shooting for there being some sort of undead element mixed up in this) and Subdue would most likely be closely connected to Fount's water element, forming an ice element... Oh I think I get it now.

The primary F elements are our primary four classical elements as you said,

Quote from: Vasae
Fury: Fire
Fount: Water
Foundation: Earth
Force: Air

And the S elements might be formed by a combination of the 4 main elements, creating a group of secondary elements. Maybe the F stands for First and the S stands for Second, separating the elements into primary and secondary groups, as Skiwiks showed in his diagram. And if we combine the edges of the blue diamond, they create their closest corner of the green square, so in other words:

Fury (Fire) + Force (Air) = Strike (Not entirely sure on this one, gonna need some suggestions!)
Force (Air) + Fount (Water) = Surge (Lightning) Makes sense because I think air plus water moisture does play a roll in creating lightning. I initially thought it would be Fire and Air but this makes more sense now that I think about it.
Fount (Water) + Foundation (Earth) = Subdue (Ice) Basically water taking on the characteristics of solid earth makes Ice
Foundation (Earth) plus Fury (Fire) = Sunder (Poison? Lava? Melty stuff? Not sure.)

And going one step further, maybe Muddle is created by combining any opposing elements in the primary group.

Force (Air) + Foundation (Earth) = Muddle (Erosion?)
Fury (Fire) + Fount (Water) = Muddle (Steam?)
Radiant (Light) + Murk (Dark) = Muddle? Maybe they just glance off each other though.

Maybe Muddle is just representative of a dud, Air and Earth might just break down the rocks over a very long period of time, and Fire and Water just make steam when combined with each other. Muddle must represent any sort of cancellation or lack of effect of the elements.

I don't think this would effect the secondary elements as well, but maybe we could still view those secondary elements as opposites of each other? What's the opposite of lightning? Maybe we could find out what Sunder is based off of that, and what's the opposite of ice? Maybe Strike represents some higher form of fire that we haven't thought of yet... Probably not lava or magma though, I don't think Fire and Air produce anything except a more well-fed fire (though magma is considered lava when it reaches the surface and is exposed to open air... I really don't know where I'm going here).

Alright, that's all I've got for now!
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Grue

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2013, 01:18:20 PM »
I noticed that foundation/earth is located on the bottom, force/air is on the top, with fount/water and fury/fire on either side, an arrangement that I have seen elsewhere, so we seem to really be onto something with this.

Skwiziks

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2013, 02:05:41 PM »
I've seen some interpretations that fire and air make lightning.

What if the corners of the square aren't elements?  What if they're particular kinds of elemental motion?

Fount + Strike = Surge
Water + Air = Storm Surge, like a massive wave of water

Maybe Strike is a Lightning Strike

Foundation and Fury might be an Earthquake

Foundation and Fount might be Quicksand.

Vasae

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2013, 02:09:56 PM »
I think that sounds pretty solid really. I like that theory a lot actually. It would be a really neat bit of metaphysics.

Quady14

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2013, 02:49:44 PM »
I've seen some interpretations that fire and air make lightning.

What if the corners of the square aren't elements?  What if they're particular kinds of elemental motion?

Fount + Strike = Surge
Water + Air = Storm Surge, like a massive wave of water

Maybe Strike is a Lightning Strike

Foundation and Fury might be an Earthquake

Foundation and Fount might be Quicksand.

Oh yeah, that is a really good point. It could really go either way as I see it. Your theory would definitely be interesting for special elemental attacks. Imagine an elemental enchantment that could create a pool of quicksand in an area around your enemies, holding them in place. That'd make dealing with quick buggers a lot easier. If only it could trap those warp-happy ghosts... Speaking of which have the ghosts had their AI reworked? I'm kinda curious. I know they've undergone changes a few times during showcases of the pre-alpha, so I imagine they'll end up behaving a bit differently than they originally did by the game's release.
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Skwiziks

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2013, 04:12:26 PM »
I wasn't even thinking about possible uses in the game, heh.  :D

I hope you're right about ice, as ice would be pretty cool.

Vasae

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2013, 09:07:34 PM »
I wasn't even thinking about possible uses in the game, heh.  :D

I hope you're right about ice, as ice would be pretty cool.

Especially with the physics in the game. Would be funny as heck if you could make the ground more slick so enemies slid into spikes and stuff.

Coby

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2013, 10:15:28 PM »
If only it could trap those warp-happy ghosts... Speaking of which have the ghosts had their AI reworked? I'm kinda curious. I know they've undergone changes a few times during showcases of the pre-alpha, so I imagine they'll end up behaving a bit differently than they originally did by the game's release.


Everything you have seen to this point has been / is being changed. The pacing, physics-ness, visual fidelity, and overall quality you've seen will be the same or better, but we've been reworking everything on the content side from (almost) the ground up to make sure it is all cohesive and makes sense and is awesome and scales out to a game of big scope.


As for the other speculation on the elemental stuff: all I shall say is there are is a lot of truth in some things that have been said :D



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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2013, 06:06:01 AM »
Just make sure to keep the idea of the annoying warp ghost alive somehow.



@Quady: Hm basing parts of the elements off combinations sounds intresting.

Quady14

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2013, 04:52:26 PM »
Don't know why I only just caught this, but:

This


Appears on this


Also this!


The Fury symbol has been present on these exploding boxes and flame wands from the start and I only just made the connection to the elemental table. So chances are we'll probably be seeing wands for the majority of the other elements, marked at their tips by their respective symbols and colors. I wonder if there's gonna be Radiant or Murk wands? Probably too elementally powerful/scary to be contained in magical sticks. :P

We'll also likely be seeing other elements contained in boxes like these, as well as various other methods for that matter. It's neat that these symbols are able to communicate certain concepts to us; without that symbol you'd figure the box for nothing but a hunk of wood planks until it explodes in your face! Now you at least have a symbol to remember when it explodes in your face for the first time, and you can get excited when you pick up a weapon with that symbol etched on its surface. And for those of us who have a decent knowledge of what element will probably do what already, we'll have a pretty solid base of knowledge about what objects will do what from the get-go!

What I'd really like to see is secret rooms or passageways with markings on the floor or walls indicating the element(s) needed to pass through. Say for instance, using a Subdue or Foundation wand/sword/box/bomb (Freeze bombs? Wind bombs to powerfully blow back enemies into pits? Lots to explore!) to combine it with the natural Fount element of a rushing waterfall that prevents you from accessing a hidden doorway with its pressure pushing you back. Mixing the elements together could freeze the waterfall, and using a heavy weapon or explosive to smash it open, you would gain access to the hidden entrance, wherein sits a peddler, settled down n his secret store away from the dangerous monsters roaming outside.

Kind of obvious stuff I know, I was just scrounging around some old videos and pictures and it got me on sort of a roll thinking of the possibilities! :)

Anyways, I'm off searching for more elemental symbol appearances on enemies and items. If anybody else finds some neat connections please post some pictures here!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 05:33:04 PM by Quady14 »
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Skwiziks

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2013, 04:56:51 PM »
The rabbit hole deepens!

 :D

Doomspeaker

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Re: Delver's Joojoo: Elemental Boogaloo
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2013, 05:59:07 PM »
Quady, the only one to notice to obvious.

Good job at spotting the fury glyph. Those markings also double as coloblind-friendly guides.

So it the cross section represents the classical elements do the diagonal ones represent combinations of two elements? So muddle is combination of not matching elements?

PS: Since weapons a build out of different parts, it seems likely that a glyph-tip of the wands will be seen a lot in game.

 

 

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