Author Topic: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.  (Read 2947 times)

Doomspeaker

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2014, 04:49:28 PM »
The more I think about it, the more I think Ooze/Bile/Seep (which I'll call Ooze for simplicities sake from now one until a name is fixed) could either needs more to stand out compared to silence or become.

So if Silence/Hush forcefully balances things, Void vanishes them and Blight twists them how about making Ooze into Ebb/Wane/Drain/Purge, an element that like acid slowly strips away things until only bare bones remain and dissolves even those?? Personally I liek purge because it's a neutral term

Purge
The element of loss, entropy, bleeding, dead-ends and eventual standstill (maybe an aspect of time as well). Like stones in a river bed eventually losing all their edges, or rot leaving what was once a body as bare bones, Purge will gradually strip away anything of any lesser characteristics until the very most dominat trait/essence of the object remains. Shoud the object still be exposed to Purge it will continue to loose even these characteristics until it finally vanishes. Flames become cooler, rocks start erroding, electrict currents come to a halt, water becomes thick etc. It's essentially a form of acid that can even affect more abstract elements; weak versions don't have to exhibit too destructive proberties and are to weak to eat through glass etc.
Skilled metalcrafters can use Purge to refine metals, fighters use it to seep foes vitality and dubious mages call it to strip away powers of competitors. Purge is prevalent in all kinds of corrosive elements like acid or even some types of mold.. More concentrated Purge comes in the form of a a thick ooze or oil-like substance like substance which can be used to temporaly enhance special properties of objects at the cost of weakening them afterwards (burn it and it will refine the flame and afterwards dissolve the fire itself for example.) More pragamtic uses of the substance involve using it to cler rubble or to eat ever enemy armor.
Due to its nature, Purge-aligned cretures are usually very simple in design, like Slimes or other mollusks. It can also be found as diggestive fluid in the glands or stomach of species, being relatively harmless to creatures that evolved a natural reistance to the element (thinking of Turms here).

This would also fit witht he placement between the element of void and the element of balance, also being a neutral force to the elements on the left on right.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 06:14:57 PM by Doomspeaker »

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2015, 10:06:34 PM »
I've been thinking about this a lot, and I guess I'm having trouble with some of the overlaps still...

-- Void (Murk) would be similar to Purge in that both can strip things down / eat them away, or melt them into another substance. But Murk would turn things into Murk and Purge would turn things into inert goo? That still seems kind of similar, though the resultant materials are somewhat different.

-- Both Blight/Spoil and Purge could have "poison" properties, though Blight/Spoil would be more mutation/cancerous? And if that's the case, would Murk still cause Spoil as a sort of radiation sickness?
Which makes me think I need to go back to the drawing board for a second…

-- Let's first say that Splendor tends toward construction, perfection, and the honing of materials into something everlasting / immortal.

-- Void tends toward destruction, imperfection, and the dissolution of materials toward temporariness, death, waning, and finally disappearing.

-- I'm going to post this in a new thread soon, but my idea for the universe and dimensions/planes of the Delvers' reality, is that...
 1. the Murk Ocean exists in all planes,
2. it eats away at everything slowly, turning it into Murk, and
3. at the "bottommost" level or reality (the underworld or what-have-you of this universe), which exists at the edges of the galaxy/universe, the Murk flows into a universal cataract and into the the Great Void, where it turns to nothingness.
4. There is still a Murk "plane" or reality within the murk, where being(s) of some form of consciousness exist, but if they have any desire, it is to turn all things into murk, and empty that murk into the Great Void, and become nothing. So you can really think of Murk as being the Void's "vehicle" substance to dissolve everything and eventually flow it off the edge of the universe and into the Void. Makes me kind of think of the Xenomorphs in Alien(s) that plant their embryos in other beings and turn more and more entities into themselves, until everything is a Xenomorph.

-- Okay, so let's circle back around. Void turns matter to Murk, and eventually into nothing. This means that it is very similar to an Acid, which dissolves things into... well whatever Acid turns things into, but it breaks down their material makeup into lesser substances, in this case, turning them into Murk. So do we make the acids of this world into Murk-substances? I'm thinking maybe the answer is yes.

-- So then I think about diseases and poisons that kill biological beings. If I think about germs, bacteria, and viruses, they are all sort of biological machines that kill cells and/or use cells to reproduce themselves. Cancer twists cells and reproduces its own twisted form of them. I think this all fits with Spoil/Blight, and makes me prefer Blight as the term. It is Plague, sickness, mutation... from the common cold to the kind of mutation that turns you into a zombie thing. I think this ties in well with fungus, poison spores, miasma, and the Spoil-spawn monsters we had been planning. They all fit will with poison, and are mutant-halfbreed things. The Nyx are also mutant half-breeds, but have somehow stabilized themselves biologically and civilized themselves socially.

-- So does Murk still cause sickness or some kind of radiation sickness, and/or cause the Spoil swamps (Blight)? I think this could still work. If you think of Void matter as being sort of radioactive, then it could easily cause decay in other materials, turning them into Blight matter. So if Murk is the nuclear bomb of destruction, that can turn almost anything into Murk, then Blight is the decay in the wake of Murk/Void destruction. What was not eaten and converted to Murk may be poisoned by Blight, and may then poison other things with Blight… though its potential for overpowering decay decreases the farther away from a Murk source or epicenter. A bite from a Blight monster might poison you or shrivel and deform an arm if bitten there - but it might be curable. But the effects of living in a Spoil swamp where Murk pockets lurk underground and “feed” the Spoil perpetually would turn you into a permanent mutant undead fungus creature. Thoughts on this?

-- So if Void is like super-potent acid, assimilation of other matter/entities into acid, and finally destruction and nothingness, and Blight is poison, deformation, and mutation, where does that leave this new Purge / Ooze / Bile / Plasm / Goo? OR, since we are totally rearranging - what if Void is truly dissolution, nothingness, etc. and is NOT Murk. Murk is its own Temperament / element, and is acid and assimilation (and all of the ooze / bile / etc. aspects become part of Murk). Then Blight moves in between Flourish and Murk like so:


Splendor                   Echo                    Void
|                                                    |
|                                                    |
Flourish ---------------- Blight ----------------- Murk
|                                                    |
|                                                    |
Surge                                             Sunder / etc.

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Ryan Baker

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2015, 11:16:18 PM »
One more thing to think about for all of these - if a player gets a weapon or spell that does any given damage type, what are the "bonus" side effects (debuffs, etc) applied to the enemy? Otherwise, it's just lots of random vulnerabilities / invulnerabilities, aka a giant rock-paper-scissors matrix. Which is fun for certain things, but is not that great in a real-time game with a small, limited inventory. It's more conducive to a game that is turn based with a large elemental "inventory" (whether that's an inventory of spells, weapons, or pokemon), where you have time to find the right tool for each situation. My thinking for Delvers is that the elemental system's RPS nature will only help to vary up a few dungeons, but should not lock players into only fire weapons on level 3 (or whatever). Rather, players might know they need one fire weapon in level 3, but the rest of the weapons they can pick based on what special debuff effects they enjoy using on enemies.

So let's look at all of the elements for their side effects, to see if there is enough variety and differences. One item to note - all elements could do Damage over Time (DoT), though some might be more potent or more likely to do it (so these I will call out specifically).

Splendor
Simply powerful, especially against the "darker" arcane elements. Side effects would be a high degree of stun and the ability to penetrate through multiple enemies / objects at once.
Summary: 100% Stun

Flourish
Tangles and slows enemies, and prevents them from using their attacks by binding them w/ constrictive vines.
Summary: Prevents Action, Slows Movement

Surge
Can push enemies around, throw them across the room, etc, and drench them, slowing them and washing away any bonus effects they natively have (like putting out the fire on a flaming bat)
Summary: High knockback, slow recovery, negates enemy buffs

Shiver
Freezes enemies and coats them with ice, slowing acceleration and making them slide around. May also make them slower to react and attack, so all strikes are half the usual speed.
Summary: Slow action, lower acceleration, and lower friction/traction

Mantle
Pummels and surrounds enemies with cementing stone, weighing them down and preventing movement. Locks them to one spot, like lead or cement boots.
Summary: Complete stasis, slows or prevents rotation (direction changes), but allows action/attack

Rupture / Blast
Very high knockback, has the chance to shatter shield-armor, and may blind and/or stun, reducing enemy pathfinding.
Summary: High knockback, criticals versus armor, blindness

Rage/Fury
Causes the most damage over time, and enrages the enemy, causing them to attack any objects/entities indiscriminately with a higher than normal speed, causing more fires.
Summary: DoT, Berserker rage, but higher speed

Sunder/Rift (Lightning)
Probably has a high degree of knockback, and causes the shocked entity to cause carry-over touch damage to anything they bump into. May also cause a high chance to misfire or backfire when attacking, causing damage to oneself. Or innervates enemies, preventing them from acting / stunning them? There are already several elements that prevent action.
Summary: Conductive touch-damage to others, much higher chance to misfire / backfire when attacking, but adds lightning damage to all attacks

Blight / Spoil
Poison would cause DoT, and might also be a better placement for the "backfiring actions" than Sunder - so if you are poisoned, any movement or attacks may drain your health much faster. And/or your attacks are simply weaker and do less damage. Could also just make you more vulnerable to physical damage.
Summary: Best bet is probably: DoT, Physical Damage received is amplified, all attack actions do less damage, and some attacks backfire.

Murk / Void
Very high damage, very high chance of critical, and maybe has a chance to cause "doom" with a countdown after which time the enemy instantly dies? Maybe completely bypasses armor (unless it's Splendor-based) and hits Heart HP. This also seems to be a good place to do health-leeching, stealing some of the opponent's health and giving it to you (fits with the assimilation idea of Murk). Vampirism!
Summary: Ignores shields, high chance of crit, may cause instant death or a death countdown, and/or steals health.

Echo
Traumatic / Psychic Dread damage. Crazes enemies with fear, causing them to run from the player and maybe even run into pits or hazards intentionally.
Summary: Cray-cray fear effects

Quell / Storm
High knockback, blows enemies across the room kind of like surge. But I also like the idea of a whirlwind that dizzies enemies, causing their ability to rotate to get super wonky, so they can't walk in a straight line.
Summary: Knockback + dizziness

Wild / Roar
This could be a better location for the Berzerker effects (rather than fire). Or if we think of this as the element of savagery and animal life-cycles, maybe it can "eat" the health of the target and add it to the attacker. Or maybe it bloodies and weakens the target, and attracts other enemies to them like sharks to blood in the water. Or... it could put you in a position of dominance to the target, making them your thrall for a time. I like the last idea best I think, so maybe some of the ideas here can go to other elements.
Summary: May cause the damage recipient to become a thrall and fight for you, possibly in a berserker rage (?)

Muddle
Does little damage on its own, but causes the entity to become confused, use abilities at random, attacking thin air, making its pathfinding really really dumb, so it runs into things and is pretty much a bumbling idiot.
Summary: Confusion, Random action

Silence / Hush
Prevents enemies from using any magical / elemental damage? And this may be the only way to stun or do high damage to spectral / Echo enemies. Could this also be an element of magnetism/gravity/polarity, pulling other objects toward the affected entity? Maybe also prevents healing or something interesting like that?
Summary: Magical Silence, plus...?

Ooze / Plasm / Purge / Bile
One thing that I would attach (if we do this one) is something very similar to Slag in Borderlands 2 - It does little damage on its own, but if you hit it with any destructive elements, they do way more damage. So basically volatile ooze or petroleum tar which can catch fire easily, and is also susceptible to explosive, electric, acid, etc. damage types. ALTERNATIVELY - if we drop this element, its damage amplification could switch to Muddle, Silence, or Blight. May also slow top speed / increases stickiness (traction).
Summary: Amplifies elemental damage but lowers physical damage, and...?

Would also be cool if one of the elements (maybe also Ooze/whatever) dramatically increased the entity's elasticity, causing it to bounce off of everything to the point that it caused damage just by high-speed locomotion. This might replace the stickiness idea of Ooze above, would maybe make more sense if we called the element Plasm?

Any other effects I'm missing? A lot of the other ones I'm thinking of (in other RPGs) would work better in a turn-based game versus a realtime game.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 02:42:22 AM by Ryan Baker »

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2015, 11:59:47 PM »
Looking at D&D 4e, they have separate Corrosive (acid), Necrotic (like our Blight), and Poison.

http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Types#Damage_types
Acid: Corrosive liquid.
Poison: Toxins that reduce a creature’s hit points.
Necrotic: Purple-black energy that deadens flesh and wounds the soul.
Cold: Ice crystals, arctic air, or frigid liquid.
Fire: Explosive bursts, fiery rays, or simple ignition.
Lightning: Electrical energy.
Thunder: Shock waves and deafening sounds.
Force: Invisible energy formed into incredibly hard, yet non-solid shapes.
Psychic: Effects that target the mind.
Radiant: Searing white light or shimmering colors.

We could apply some of the "invisible energy" concept back to our wind element.


Can anyone explain to me why Acid / Poison / Necrotic need to be separate? Seems like you only need 2 of them at most. Like couldn't Poison damage just be Necrotic damage over time? or Acid damage to the internal organs? There could be cool things to do with it, especially while role-playing / story-telling, but it just seems to be a bit much.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 02:45:43 AM by Ryan Baker »

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Quady14

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2015, 11:19:00 PM »
Can anyone explain to me why Acid / Poison / Necrotic need to be separate? Seems like you only need 2 of them at most. Like couldn't Poison damage just be Necrotic damage over time? or Acid damage to the internal organs? There could be cool things to do with it, especially while role-playing / story-telling, but it just seems to be a bit much.

Acid (I believe, I'm not really a DnD guy but I'm speaking in general terms here) refers to something that degrades armor, weapons, etc. rather than expressly damaging its victim, Poison affects the skin/blood/insides of the victim and can be applied to blades without degrading them in order to pass on the Poison (I don't think acid-laced weapons are a thing) and Necrotic might be more of a long-term curse, a stronger but slower version of poison, breaking away not only the insides of the victim, but rotting them on the outside, making them appear like a very early Undead, or a Leprosy victim (blech). Like you said maybe they're not all necessary, but the one or two poison effects with different methods of working away at the victim's health, and the other which breaks down the victim's equipment and ability to fight/defend themselves.

For Delver's Drop, what if the terms Acid and Necrotic referred to the way Blight/Spoil effects your character? Your health and armor condition could decide whether you were afflicted with Acid or Necrotic, where Acid might break away your armor more quickly and end over a short span, Necrotic would slowly rot away your health and remain for a longer period, forcing you to seek restoratives or optimally antidote. That way they're essentially under the same element of Spoil, but it sort of adapts to fit what it's degrading, since the whole purpose of each affliction is to break down different organic or inorganic materials... I guess Poison is more infecting first, then breaking down, but you get the idea.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 11:24:07 PM by Quady14 »
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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2015, 08:35:45 PM »
How do you guys feel about Scourge for the lightning element? It might be too similar-sounding to Surge, but I could change that back to one of my previous ideas, Flow.

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2015, 09:47:39 PM »
I like Scourge and Flow

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2015, 12:51:25 PM »
What about Discharge or amplify?

Ryan Baker

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2015, 03:46:35 PM »
Will add to my list of possibilities. I'm probably going to make a decision soon so we can keep on trucking so I'll keep you guys posted!

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Doomspeaker

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2015, 09:04:34 AM »
Almost forgot to twi in this:

You defintely need a "neutral" for of destruction/removal.

Ooze / Plasm / Purge / Bile
Summary: Amplifies elemental damage but lowers physical damage and strips away/weakens elemental resistances.

I like the idea of weakening enemy resistances because it allows mages specilizing in certain elements to still deal damage to creatures that otherwise would completly shrug off any attacks. Could stop fire monsters from absorbing flame attacks for example, or even make them take minimal damage from flames! Lower resistances sound very much like what Slugn in Borderlands can be (ab)used for. Slug an armored enemy so your fire smg at least does some damage.


Silence / Hush
Summary: Magical Silence, forcefully balances stats (hp and mana for example), able to phase things out of existancea shot time and deal damage to Echo entities

Silence effects are stables in games like this, so yeah definitely should be there. Since Silence is the element of balance, why not make it able to force balance of things? Mages getn their hp balanced out with their mana for example, which can be both good and bad, depending on the situation. Phasing I mention because it's a good crowd control status effect. You can't hurt phased out enemies, but they won't hurt you either. Useful when you get overwhelmed or if you need time to heal/prepare something else. Hurting Echo might not be very "status effecty" but that's fine.

Wild / Roar
Give it charm, life steal and a DMG UP effect!

Murk / Void
I would avoid overloading Murk with too much again. The "Doom" effect (time until murk fully infects), armor circumvention (murk being able to eat through everthing) and the cahnce of insta death (murk swallowing small things in one go) together would make for a highly desirable element already. Note the synergie between eating armor (for well armored enemies) and "Doom" (able to take out high HP enemies witha  bit of patience).

Rupture / Blast
Also add "enemies can explode upon death".

Rage/Fury
All fine. This might be the element that prevents healing (scorching wounds) and maybe elimitanted "bleed" effects (if they exist).

Blight/Spoil
Makes things more "strenuous". Actions draining health (and maybe mana/sp/whatever else is a resource) sounds good. Same with misfiring. A positive effect could be a short resistance against other status effects/short time attack up/short time defense up (who says any spontaneous "mutation" must be negative). Might work well if you can't directly chose which positive effect is applied (unstable mutation).

Quell / Storm
Add "reduces enemy accuracy". Might be an effect dizzy enemies suffer from anyway.

Sunder/Rift (Lightning)
Conductive touch based damage sounds good. Lightning damage as well. I'd suggest replacing misfire (which I'd place under Blight) with intervall stun. Monsters afflicted will get a short stun and a bit damage every x seconds. Just imagine a goebling walking towards you "getting zapped" every once in a while.


The otehrs already are very solid.

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Re: LORE: Elements, Materials, etc.
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2015, 01:10:22 PM »
All very great ideas! I will add these in. I especially like the suggestions that add a slight positive (or more neutral like phasing) effects to the enemies, even if the total overall status effect is negative.

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