Author Topic: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)  (Read 2457 times)

Ryan Baker

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LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« on: January 08, 2015, 08:41:05 AM »
Since the gods don't play super directly into DDrop (or at least not yet as far as we have it written), I have some old versions of the history and list of gods that I think will probably be revised. So I'll post the older version first, and we'll work up to the new one. You'll notice that some overlap has developed between some old god names and new element names, and there are probably disparities between descriptions here and the newest info on matter/energy/spirit. Ignore those for now, I'll iron them out.


NOTE:
When referring to gods, use ""The"" + Common Name (first one listed) + Lore name (second one listed), such as "The Infinity Absolutus" or "The Primus Electus".

For a shorter version, use only the common name, except in the case of "Absolutus" which should use the Lore Name Absolutus only.



Infinity   Absolutus
The Absolutus is the absolute being, the All-In-One, the Originator and Infinity, the Pleroma, or body of the universe. Its nature was hidden in its two closed fists: the Pylars. These Gods were revealed at the beginning of the universe, one by one, reflections of the nature of the Pleroma, body of the Absolutus — each Pylar with its own purpose. The Absolutus' design was for the Pylars to work in harmony, and though they did not, it is thought that their strife with each other and the loss of harmony in the universe may yet be rectified, since the nature of the Pylars is still, and always be, a part of the nature of the Absolutus.

The Pylars, or Overgods   
     
1   Primus Electus
The mind and will / choice of the Absolutus. It was revealed to act, to execute that which the Absolutus desires, to change and mold the universe in time, separating the before and after, and allowing for change.
• Discrete existence
• Thought, Change, Time
• Choice, Will, the Mind


2   Void Echos

The Absolutus commands Primus to cut away the emptiness, separating it from his body, the Pleroma — creating the Void. Space and stillness are created. In this stillness abides the Spirit, the immaterial essence of the Pleroma, which cannot be touched or defiled.
• Peace, stillness
• Space (empty space)
• The Spirit Echo, the True Being, the Breath


3   Source Signus

The Absolutus commands Primus to cut a wound through his Pleroma body, forming an infinite current of Allblood — creating the Source. The Allblood of source is the root of all created matter and substances, and full of infinite potential.
• The cycle of flourishing life
• Matter in time
• Blood
• The Soul (The Body-Mind-Essence)


4   Flourish Euphoria

"The Absolutus commands the Source to separate itself into two currents: the Ichor and the Murk, the substances of creation.  The flow of matter in space is created in two rings — Ichor and Murk. These are then symbolized by two overlapping rings OO.


Absolutus' favored child the Flourish, the ultimate expression of his will, is revealed in this separation and creation of distinct substances. She commands the two currents of Ichor and Murk. The Murk has the potential for anything, and is all and nothing at once, a beauty in chaos. The Ichor is pure and completely itself - its beauty is in its uniformity and purity.
• Diversity, uniqueness
• Proliferation, Expansion


5   Law, Rule, Command, Canon, Creed (?)

Primus commands that Flourish create and allow proliferation in the Ichor and Murk, but that they remain separate, at great peril to the Pleroma. The Pylar of Law is revealed.
• Law
• Division / Stratification / Organization"


6   Allure

"Flourish created universes and worlds in the cascades of the Ichor and Murk, but over time became dissatisfied with her limitations of keeping them separate. She then disobeyed the Primus' law of separation by attempting to combine the two flows. The flows crossed, burning their two OO rings into the infinity symbol, aka the Twisted Ring — the Ichor on Murk continuously consuming and regenerating itself.


In doing so, Flourish created Allure, the possibility for that which did not exist (the Void-Dream), was not intended (the Twisted-Dream), and what could have been (the Flourish-Dream) — the three sides of Allure's nature. Allure is burdened by the weight of the three dreams and blinded (represented as blindfolded) by its divided nature, and begins to fall — its falling continues throughout all time, and its fall will mean the end of strife in cataclysm for that which was created by the twisting of the Source.
• Free Will
• Yearning
• Evaluation, Comparision, Weighing
• Creativity in searching, discovering, unmaking, re-inventing
• Desire for the non-existing, non-present, and even non-beneficial


7   Tryst (Mercy)

The Absolutus commands Primus to kill Flourish for its disobedience to the Primus' law, and the Primus refuses, revealing Tryst, the imbuement of value, the desire for that which is to remain, and the power of love and forgiveness. One of the three rods / pillars of Law was bent, changing his symbol.
• Attraction
• Love
• Value, Worth
• Creativity in refining and beautifying
• Desire for the existing and present
• Mercy"


8   Paradox

The creation of Tryst in the midst of Law revealed Paradox - a spinning shield held between Law and Tryst, balancing Justice and Forgiveness in order to prevent the two from destroying each other. It is therefore the divine mystery of the coexistence of Law and Tryst. It keeps the two separate, but sometimes crevices are found in its shield, and Tryst wins in spite of Law. Paradox also revealed the element of chance — for things to happen that are not a direct result of the Absolutus' (or the Pylar's) will.
• Paradoxes
• Chance
• Division of Justice from Forgiveness, Law from Tryst
• ... and the balance between the two.


9   Ruin (Strife), Sorrow, Desolation (?)

"During the struggle for the universe to reveal Paradox (Tryst in spite of Law), Flourish crept silently into the Pleroma and drank of the Ichor and bathed in Murk. The Ichor formed within Flourish 12 seeds: The God-Eggs. The Murk shrouded her in a shadowy cloak that hid her glory.


Flourish was found by Law, but he was opposed by Allure. In the resulting struggle, Paradox flung his Shield into the fray, leaving to chance who would be victorious. In the struggle, the shield fell into the Murk stream. Flourish saw her chance to flee, and diverted the stream of Murk, spilling it out to form the Murk ocean, or unbounded empyrean beneath the Pleroma. The shield is now said the remain as the great divider between the two realms. The battle between Allur and Law revealed Ruin, emerging from the cataract of chaotic Murk — the breaking of the Pleroma and the shedding of its beings' blood through strife and war.
• Strife
• War
• Pain


10   Absence (Death) Quietus

Flourish, becoming hidden by a cloudy cloak of Murk and shadow escapes. She then plunged into the Murk ocean, never to emerge - revealing in her place, rising back out of the Murk: the Pylar Absence, and death — an emptiness greater than the Void, for in it is no peace.
• Absence
• Death


11   Labor, Toil (?)
The Pylars endlessly search for Flourish in the Murk throughout all the ages that were and are to come — revealing Labor, the loss of effort in time, and entropy working against all beings in pursuit of Flourish. This is why all things are born, derived, or refined from the Murk through great effort.
• Entropy


12   Devotion & Cheer (Twins)

The Pylars refused to give up hope in their search for Flourish, and revealed the twins Devotion and Cheer, the ability to hope and perservere in spite of Labor, Ruin, and Absence, and indeed laugh in the face of them. Their arrow shoots toward hope, the string of the bow laughing as it flies.
• Hope
• Reunion


13   Enigma

Some believe in the existence of Enigma, the last Pylar, which is unknown and unknowable until the end of time. Its presence is revealed in that the Absolutus and Pylars sometimes intervene in spite of Paradox. It is believed that Enigma will reveal the Absolutus' hidden purpose of redemption in the struggles of the Pylars, and redeem Flourish as the bride and mother of the universe.
• The great mystery of redemption
• Divine intervention that supercedes chance and luck
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 08:48:34 AM by Ryan Baker »

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2015, 08:42:14 AM »
I'll let you guys mull over that before I post about the lower Orb Gods (gods of the planets) and the Celestial Beasts.

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2015, 09:25:19 AM »
Hm this definitely reminds me of some japanes-esque diety mythology (I'm sure our local weebo Vasae will correct me here :P). I definitely need a diagramm/chronographic tree to keep these relations  somewhat in mind. I guess you plan on writing this one down as some kind of bible esque creation story eventually?

I guess some Overgods don't have a Lore name in your writing?
Allure wasn't revealed by Absolutus but instead was created by Flourish?
So Ruin (Strife), Sorrow, Desolation is the "totally evil" god here? Uuuuuuuhmmmmmmmm.

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2015, 12:37:20 PM »
The ones with multiple names with commas (Ruin, Strife, Sorrow) were the ones where I had not decided on a final name. All of them would eventually have a common name + lore name.

I don't know if any of them would be considered evil - they are more like possibilities or forces in the universe. More like gravity and magnetism, though some of them are opposed to each other. The overgods don't directly create each other. Some of them are revealed by the actions of others - like how the principle of love necessitates the principle of selflessness. (And as for their revelation one by one - some religious sects would claim that they were part of the Absolutus' plan from the beginning).

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2015, 04:40:14 PM »
I like the revealing of the gods a lot, because it makes it unsure it there are more and shrouds their exact creation into myths. The idea of leaving open whether or not they all existed from the beginning and are part of a masterplan or if they just sponeneously come into existance to be revealed certainly has a charm to it.

I'm a bit warry of, let's call them Ruin, for now. While it's common for certain gods in a pantheon to suffer from the "Hades is Evil"-syndrome (so domains that are associated with unpleasant topics, but needed in their respective worlds often misinterpreted as being evil), most avoid having a figure which soley represents negative things and negative things only.

Strife, War and Pain are all pretty much exclusive to evil. Every other overgod (I like the term) has ambigious domains assigned to them that can be either postivie and negative or are neutral (like time). Only Ruin got the shot end of the stick, they are the embodyment of negative things nobody would ever find positive. If they at least also had attributes like sorrow and/or guit which would turn them from "hey evil dudes you gotta worship me" to at least "embodiement of conflict". I suspect that the second one is closer to what is intented, because you already considered a name such as sorrow anyway. Well that's my my 2 cents on that. 

To spin away a bit from Ruin: Are gods associated with elements as well or are all their concepts independant of elements?

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2015, 05:30:22 PM »
Hm this definitely reminds me of some japanes-esque diety mythology (I'm sure our local weebo Vasae will correct me here :P). I definitely need a diagramm/chronographic tree to keep these relations  somewhat in mind. I guess you plan on writing this one down as some kind of bible esque creation story eventually?

Shush you.  :P They're not so much Japanese since those are pretty anthropomorphic. It's certainly Polytheistic but that leads me to

I don't know if any of them would be considered evil - they are more like possibilities or forces in the universe. More like gravity and magnetism, though some of them are opposed to each other. The overgods don't directly create each other. Some of them are revealed by the actions of others - like how the principle of love necessitates the principle of selflessness. (And as for their revelation one by one - some religious sects would claim that they were part of the Absolutus' plan from the beginning).

So they're more like Universal Constants? Are the Overgods imbued with a Will? You say Absolutus has a Will but he is...Eru Illuvatar in this world or Ao from Frogotten Realms. He's the Overgod of the Overgod as it were. Do the Overgods he "revealed" have desires outside their tasks or are they all cogs in a machine crafted by a larger entity than themselves?  Did they create the next God that follows them merely by being or did they create them because there was a desire to create them? Did Flourish go against Absolutus because she desired to or was it merely a function of what she is? Was the refusal to kill her then another part of a machine that has, in effect, whirred out of control from the original plan?

 

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2015, 06:49:11 PM »

Strife, War and Pain are all pretty much exclusive to evil. Every other overgod (I like the term) has ambigious domains assigned to them that can be either postivie and negative or are neutral (like time). Only Ruin got the shot end of the stick

Yeah, I would be okay with making the god of strife and war more of a champion god - of glorious battle, but also of pain in defeat.

Did Flourish go against Absolutus because she desired to or was it merely a function of what she is? Was the refusal to kill her then another part of a machine that has, in effect, whirred out of control from the original plan?

Well that is the great question, isn't it? :) I like to think that the Pylars / Overgods have the ability to choose, but they cannot choose something that is outside of their nature. In other words, they are unchanging.

---

This all brings me back to to a couple of possible problems with the Pylars:

• I think calling them "Gods" or "Overgods" makes them seem like they have total free will. In all religions and mythologies, gods usually do. But I think of the Pylars more as universal forces with an ability to choose, though they must choose within their nature -- or consequently another Pylar is created, giving them an "out" to choose something outside of their nature, but still inherent to the fabric of the universe. So maybe that solves it? They don't have total free will, but the other Pylars who act in contrast or in tandem with them can "intervene" and provide possibilities outside of their nature? So when The Primus does not kill Flourish, it is Tryst that is allowing this possibility, stepping in to change circumstances. So Primus "stands aside" and allows Tryst to operate, rather than Primus itself acting against its own nature.

• If we don't have any "evil" Pylars, then I guess I need to come up with some form of evil in the universe. I've tried working on versions of the mythology that have no root evil, but the more you do that the more you remove conflict, and therefore make the story more bland. But on the other hand, my constant go-to example of a good story with no root evil is Princess Mononoke - there is no purely evil faction, but everyone wants something, and most of the factions stoop to evil actions to achieve their goals. The boar gods attacks the humans without caring whether their clan lives or dies, and the samurai try to take iron town by force, and Lady Iboshi kills the forest spirit. So I guess if you boil it down, the root evil is greed. So if we look at evil in this way, as "basically neutral entities acting in a way that is evil," then the obvious conclusion is that in the cosmic strife between the Pylars, certain evils arose as a result of the Pylars' actions. So the god of glorious valor is also the god of war and conflict, and creates pain and death. Perhaps the Absolutus' intention for this god was truly valor and bravery, but as a result of the conflict negative/evil results came about (pain and death), where if things were perfect, there could be valor without death, like a great cosmic jousting tournament of the gods or whatever.

As for elements - since the change to making elements into "temperaments" of matter/energy/spirit, I think that it makes sense for certain gods to have dominion or influence over certain elements, or that certain elements might flow from the gods' natures, since the Pylars themselves are fundamentally "temperaments" or principles of the nature of the universe.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 06:51:34 PM by Ryan Baker »

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2015, 01:20:12 AM »

Well that is the great question, isn't it? :) I like to think that the Pylars / Overgods have the ability to choose, but they cannot choose something that is outside of their nature. In other words, they are unchanging.

So they're less cogs and more programs in a big computer running down a list of command lines they can pick from.

• I think calling them "Gods" or "Overgods" makes them seem like they have total free will. In all religions and mythologies, gods usually do. But I think of the Pylars more as universal forces with an ability to choose, though they must choose within their nature -- or consequently another Pylar is created, giving them an "out" to choose something outside of their nature, but still inherent to the fabric of the universe. So maybe that solves it? They don't have total free will, but the other Pylars who act in contrast or in tandem with them can "intervene" and provide possibilities outside of their nature? So when The Primus does not kill Flourish, it is Tryst that is allowing this possibility, stepping in to change circumstances. So Primus "stands aside" and allows Tryst to operate, rather than Primus itself acting against its own nature.

Do people worship them? They don't answer prayers or give gifts to mortal yes? Do the Orb Gods do that? Or even the Celestial Beasts like the Dragon or the Unicorn? Why not call them The Pylar and give the Orb Gods the distinction of Gods?

As for the rest, so working outside the confines of the Universe as it is creates another facet of it instead of simply being impossible to do? 

• If we don't have any "evil" Pylars, then I guess I need to come up with some form of evil in the universe. I've tried working on versions of the mythology that have no root evil, but the more you do that the more you remove conflict, and therefore make the story more bland. But on the other hand, my constant go-to example of a good story with no root evil is Princess Mononoke - there is no purely evil faction, but everyone wants something, and most of the factions stoop to evil actions to achieve their goals. The boar gods attacks the humans without caring whether their clan lives or dies, and the samurai try to take iron town by force, and Lady Iboshi kills the forest spirit. So I guess if you boil it down, the root evil is greed. So if we look at evil in this way, as "basically neutral entities acting in a way that is evil," then the obvious conclusion is that in the cosmic strife between the Pylars, certain evils arose as a result of the Pylars' actions. So the god of glorious valor is also the god of war and conflict, and creates pain and death. Perhaps the Absolutus' intention for this god was truly valor and bravery, but as a result of the conflict negative/evil results came about (pain and death), where if things were perfect, there could be valor without death, like a great cosmic jousting tournament of the gods or whatever.

I found Mononoke to be Studio Ghibli's most moralistic work honestly. While there's no certain evil Iron Town is most decidedly the overarching "wrong" within the movie though probably best not to go on a tangent about all that. Is it possible to inject some of the Pylars with "evil" characteristics? To use the same source the Forest God by day extolled the virtues of a healthy forest but by night it became a being of rot and decay and death. This dual nature made The Forest God not a benevolent entity but simply part of the world. Neither good nor evil, it was simply what it was. Pretty common for more Polythestic Gods. You've already done it with Flourish really where she obeys her function but then deviates from it, causing the Universe to be plunged into chaos and ruin and then she runs off and hides. The Flourish Euphoria is already sort of a Good/Evil Entity.

Also, would the Creation Myth go a little something like this?

Absolutus opened the Pylar, it's hands, and this act created Primus to oversee and act as it's will over the other Pylar and in this allowed it's body to change. The Primus Electus then commanded The Void Echoes to seperate it's body, the Plemora, from the emptiness within it and thus created the void while The Source Signus cleaved a wound into the Plemora and created the source of creation which would be where all things came. In doing this it then commanded The All Body to be seperated into Ichor and Murk and from this division The Flourish Euphoria sprang into being as she was the boundless possibilities this division created. But Murk and Ichor cannot merge and to oversee this possibility never arising Flourish is commanded to create The Creed and thus Law was born into the Chaotic Universe.

The Flourish Euphoria however grew weary of creating universes and worlds under such harsh restrictions and in an act of defiance against Absolutus attempted to merge the two streams of Ichor and Murk and thus birthed The Allure who stood as the Possibility where No Possibility Once Had Been. For her defiance The Primus Electus was orded by Absolutus to slay The Flourish Euphoria but stayed his hand for Allure had changed the Universe and from this deviation The Tryst Mercy was created and love was born into a world once unfeeling. This further spiraled out of control as The Tryst Mercy and The Law attempted to counter one another and this created The Paradox who acted as a shield so the two would not be destroyed.

This "war" had other consequences for during the time it took to find The Paradox for The Flourish Euphoria used the chaos to drink from The Ichor Stream which created within her the Twelve God Seeds, she then bathed in the stream of Murk and hid glory from the other Pylar in a cloak of shadow. Despite this cloak however The Law found The Flourish Euphoria but The Allure came to her defense which caused The Paradox to step into the fray where it's shield was thrown into the murk stream which caused it to deviate in it's path and flow and form an ocean underneath the Pleroma where the shield sits to this day dividing the two. In doing so the Plyar Ruin emerged from the Empyrean Ocean. In this scuffle The Flourish Euphoria fled with her cloak of murk into the Empyrean Ocean and spat out The Absences Queitus which filled her place. The Pylar tried to find The Flourish Euphoria within the Murk, creating the Pylar Toil in their futile efforts to find their kin. But despite such obstacles the Pylar refused to bend and the Pylar Twins Devotion and Cheer joined their search through the Empyrean Ocean. One day, some believe, that the final Pylar Enigma will come forward and redeem The Flourish Euphoria for her deeds and reveal the true plan of the Infinity Absolutus and usher in The Flourish Euphoria as the true mother of the Universe and the bride of it.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 01:23:05 AM by Vasae »

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2015, 04:50:12 AM »

Strife, War and Pain are all pretty much exclusive to evil. Every other overgod (I like the term) has ambigious domains assigned to them that can be either postivie and negative or are neutral (like time). Only Ruin got the shot end of the stick

Yeah, I would be okay with making the god of strife and war more of a champion god - of glorious battle, but also of pain in defeat.

Yes please. An embodiment of conflict can be spun in either direction which always makes for good stories.


About free will of overgods: Yes, whenever the need for a new concept arises the would be a new Pylar stepping into existance. If Pylars are embodiments of certain concepts then that means that they can't have free will so to speak; they are slaves to their very own nature. This of course wouldn't stop them from abusing loopholes in their nature (like commanding other Pylars to do their work as you already mentioned).

I'd avoid a pure "god's going totally against their nature" for any part of the lore, because it tends to turn things cheap and inconsistent lore wise (what's the reason other gods don't go bonkers either then?). Flourish Euphoria merging Ichor and Murk is very much still within her dominion of "uniquenss" for example. I picture her as an overzealous kid, eager to find new ways to fulfill her role.

As for total "evil". Baker you answered yourself already by taking Mononoke as example and Vas already explained why. Whether a god is good or evil depends on the point of view. (Iron Town's pretty much depicted as the evil side here though) .

The Pylar of Law might keep powers in check helping the world to not delve into pure chaos, but for others he might be the very personification of limits, holding back their very own potential with rigid rules.

I totally miss a god dedicated to change here btw. Is this intented to portray the mythos as a more static, unmoving thing, or did the idea simply new cross your mind? Or is this Allure as well?

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2015, 11:48:06 AM »
The Flourish Euphoria and The Allure are both Gods of Change

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 02:53:12 AM »
Another question. Do the Pylar and Orb Gods have symbols?

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 08:23:18 PM »
Yeah, I had written down what their emblems would be, but have not drawn them. I'm probably going to do a bit of revision to the names and the list, and will work the emblems into that new post.

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 05:00:33 AM »
Look forward to it!

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2015, 03:53:30 PM »
Very interesting read, you have quite the pantheon of gods being created. My question is how much of it will play into the game and/ or is it mostly just LORE and back-story preceding the events in the game?

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Re: LORE: Gods (the early rough version)
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2015, 02:09:28 AM »

Thinking about revising the gods list, with the main changes being the addition of a god that presides over the elements, and the removal of the god of "toil" and combining its properties (entropy, strife) into the god of war/destruction/ruin/etc. I also tweaked some of the names and what they preside over. The story will change a little bit, but not too much.

The Prime, Electus ---------------- Mind, Will, Purpose
The Peaceful, Aethranos ---------------- Spirit, Space, Planes
The Source, Signarus ---------------- Matter, Body, Blood, Prism & Murk
The Tempermental, Tarnash ---------------- Energy, Change/Flux, Elem. Temperaments, Emotion, Imbalance
The Blossoming, Louria ---------------- Diversity, Survival, Creation / Procreation, Growth
The Justifier, Stratus ---------------- Structure, Oranization, Law, Justice, Building
The Yearning, Lura ---------------- Free Will, Desire, Yearning, Tipping Scales, Cheating the Gods
The Striving, Sorgulis ---------------- Entropy & Strife, War & Struggle, Heat and Cold
The Merciful, Tryst ---------------- Love, Value, Perfection, Mercy, Weaving
The Paradoxical, Lababel ---------------- Chance & Paradox, Smoke, Dice, etc.
The Absent, Quinthus ---------------- Absence, Death & Vanishing, Shadow (Remembrance)
The Twin Cheers, Safon & Rafon ---------------- Devotion & Hope /Cheer (Holidays)"
The Enigmatic, Eruth ---------------- Redemption, Reunion, Home, Hearth, Open Door

Pixelscopic Co-Founder, Vision Director


 

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