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Messages - Sdric

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1
Info + Updates / Re: So - is Delver's Drop actually dead, now?
« on: March 05, 2017, 03:49:01 PM »
Is there any chance that we other longtime (but not kickstarter) backers from early 2014 get included in the original backer-bonus-character release?
I mean there's a handful of month between kickstarter and early backing but years between planned and actual release.
It'ld be a nice gesture if you could include us early backers at least in the set of announced bonus characters :)

P.S: I'm glad to see you guys are still working on this. Your post really gave us some hope ;)

2
Info + Updates / Re: Kickstarter Update (6/30/15
« on: July 15, 2015, 04:06:57 PM »
Humble lists 2 downloads:
10/06/2014
or
06/05/2014

(Picture from my browser)
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/71aa5d-1436995092.png

3
Info + Updates / Re: Kickstarter Update (6/30/15
« on: July 15, 2015, 02:32:48 PM »
Just a quick question:
Is there any chance for Humble Bundle Buyers to test the update as well?

I might not have been a Kickstarter backer, but I also have purchased the game more than a year ago.

I would truely love to be able to also try out the changes (and give feeback ofc)
(E.g. like here: Where a big (awesome!) change was born http://forums.pixelscopic.com/ddrop-discourse/limited-use-what's-the-intention/ )

4
Discourse / Re: Price Point
« on: July 16, 2014, 02:19:22 PM »
So finally another game that doesn't charge me the foreigner-tax?
As a member of the European Union I say thank you.

Actually it's 20 cents foreigner Tax :p



Joke aside, I totally forgot that you're not from Europe. 15€ ("14.99€") feels more than fair.

5
Discourse / Re: Price Point
« on: July 16, 2014, 03:43:39 AM »
It's difficult to tell at the moment since the playable alpha still is very incomplete.
The graphics and physics would suggest a higher price point, yet the actual content suggests a lower one.

Prices are not only determined by this however - but are also to some extend related to the gerne. There is no real logic behind this, other than the comparability of gameplay regardless of the games' quality.
This means that people won't mind paying 60~70€+ for a shooter, yet will rarely pay more than 15€ for an Indie Roguelike or Dungeon Crawler.

I'ld suggest you set the price between 15 and 20€, but when announcing your title highlight your physics engine and graphics which set you above from other games in this category.

20 might be justified, but it crosses a "magical border".
Try 18,50€.  19 already sounds like 20 for many people. It's all about pyschology :P

6
Discourse / Re: Limited use, what's the intention?
« on: June 17, 2014, 12:11:57 PM »
Guess I understood this part
Quote
• Projectile Parts - a pack of wood and metal bits that could be used to make arrows, shurikens, tomohawks, and other thrown/shot weapons (but not firearm bullets)
wrong.

My bad then :)

I'ld still love the idea though :p

EDIT:

About the hero trap:
Usually going for additional rooms, AFTER you already know the path out, is a bad thing (in rogue likes). Any attempt to discover the stage further than you need endangers your ability to fullfil your primary quest.
That's the hero trap.

By discovering additional rooms (which can be cleared with a primary weapon that doesn't require stacks) and using them as a reliable source of ammo for your more powerful weapons, while having little risk, leads to discovering not being as punishing as it'ld be in a hero trap.
The risk of loosing health might be equal, or lower, than the advantage you draw out of repairing your better weapon.

EDIT: Corrected gibberish caused by re-writing sentences.

7
Discourse / Re: Limited use, what's the intention?
« on: June 17, 2014, 07:54:26 AM »
Sorry for the late response, I was busy helping the guys over @ A Wizard's Lizard to get their game finished and fixed before launch :)

I'm glad to see you value my feedback!

I really like your new concept, especially the ammo crafting!
That's something that rewards discovering and clearing rooms instead of being a possibly frustrating "hero trap". (Hero trap explained, a great podcast: http://www.roguelikeradio.com/2013/08/episode-77-hero-trap.html )

I'm looking forward to see how this works out.

Cheers,
 Sdric


-----------------------------
EDIT: Maybe a little feedback on the idea's above.
I don't think weapons should loose their rarity. In case I find "King Arthur's Sword of Demonslaying" (Yes, I exaggerated this one on purpose) I'd want it to remain "King Arthur's Sword of Demonslaying", even if it gets dull - so I still have the chance to fix it and get back to its old glory.

I feel like reducing damage to 20% already is punishment enough.

You however could consider making items with 0-uses-left more expensive to repair than those with 1 remaining use.
This'ld force players to keep an eye on them and stop using them in time.
E.g. Battlefield has a similiar principle when it comes to reloading weapons. If you waste your last bullet and don't watch the count you'll sit there and reload 33% longer.

It encourages the player to be aware of his weaponary's state.


---
Another idea might be an extra sharp state, which increased the damage over the base maximum.
One way to do this would be crafting an item that requires 3 times the normal amount of "ammo" (for the same amount of blows) but increases the damage by 30% per for 5 blows.
That way good playeers could play more efficient without this item, but beginners might use it to defeat an enemy they have problems with (at hight cost).

This way good players make it further through better ressource management, but new players are able to get further instead of being stuck right at the start (which is one of the common problems with roguelikes).

I feel like that would work out really well with your idea of good players being more efficient and introducing power-ups.

8
Discourse / Re: PAX East++ in review
« on: June 08, 2014, 09:41:42 AM »
Well, the latest build some of you used to stream wasn't available for everybody, so the not losing stacks was completely new for me ;)
It's a good change though, I like it.

As for the Assassin - it might not reflect his weapon secltion, but I think the double stab is a nice feature that fits the chaarcter himself; even if his later weapons might differ.

9
Discourse / Re: PAX East++ in review
« on: June 08, 2014, 05:46:56 AM »
The new start weapons are much smoother and feel less situational.

It's great that you don't loose a weapon stack when you don't hit an enemy! (Allows you to check your weapon and see what it does).

I would recommand to start the whip sound ~200ms earlier though.

10
Discourse / Re: Limited use, what's the intention?
« on: May 11, 2014, 11:44:08 AM »
Sigh...

I'll soon give up. Unless you reference points brought up instead of adamately saying that you don't like it, there's no point in posting in a topic called "Limited use, what's the intention". At least listen to people here instead of repeating yourself over and over again. The fact that you bring up pills has little to do with weapons at all, because that's a very different thing.


Quote
I don't feel punished when healing items disappear - because they permanently increase my health.

Healing items restore health not increase it. Just saying.

Quote
It's under my control - yes, uses are under my control too: but I can't save them with good play.
The other option is to not use my newly found weapon.
Then I might as well not pick it up at all.

Sure you can save uses with good play. Aiming. Using elemental weaknesses. Conservation, etc. Not that different from any game that has ammunition.
If you don't pick up the weapon that's your loss, because the game won't slow down. Refusing to adapt will simply make the game unbeatable. That's not bad game design, that's you refusing to upgrade your weapons. Unlike a bad room you can then only blame yourself because the game clearly gave you the tools to slove the tasks ahead.

Quote
Maybe it's just me - but when I get a new "toy" I want to enjoy, test and play around with it.
Limited charges really discourage this kind of experimenting.

And you cannot experiment if every playthrough doesn't give you unlimted resources? Isn't the idea of roguelikes to learn from each playthrough anyway? You do quite the opposite if you keep hogging one weapon forever, because isn't experimenting about trying new things? I say it's the other way around and you don't want to leave your comfort zone once you like a weapon.

Then again there is no game that every let's you wield greatswords while firing arrows and summonign lightningstorms from the sky at the same time. At least none that attempts to balance any of those elements. What happens is that (same with making everything fast), that you muddle together everything and in the end, only a handfull of weapon will ever get used because they peak at certain areas. It literally kills hybrid weapons. Most RPGs don't even let you use offclass weapons at all because it breaks balance.

Quote
It's not the everyday weapon that I mind loosing which might have slightly more damage.
It's the more uncommon ones which you might get every 5 or 10 runs only.

You know how large the selcetion of weapons is? Do you know how exactly weapon generation works? Do you have any idea how the distribution of weapons works? Do you know about Affixes? In case you can't answer any of those you can't really do such statements.

Affixes change how weapons work and will (and SHOULD) make them pretty unique at times. Affixes can make higher tier weapons into lower tier weapons and vice versa. You migth find a Shortsword.
Or a Rusty Shortsword.
Or and Steel Shortsword.
Or a Shortsword of Bloodletting.
Or a Rusty Shortsword of Bloodletting.
Or a Steel Shortsword of Bloodletting

And that's just a small setion of things possible. And thanks to the wonderful weapon system with all it's different parameters (it's pretty amazing) such affixes can make for quite big changes while still keeping the main characteristics of a weapon intact.

So chances are high that the playstyle of a weapon you like might be seen often enough, but finding the exact same weapon again very soon? That's a chance bellow 1%.

1.) Vasae suggested pills. I refered to his question.
How am I not responding to his statements?

2.) Vasae refered to healing items. I refered to his post. Again - how am I not answering other people?

He asked me weather I would feel punished by picking them up or not.
You just made yourself an offender of what you accuse me of.

3.)
Quote
Healing items restore helth, not increase it.
Semantics, really? If you lost health they increase your current amount.
Sorry, but I slowly start feeling you don't share my opinion and therefor want to make me look like a fool.

Mathematically speaking:
NewHealth=min(x+y, z)
x being current health, y being the amount healed, z being maximum health.
As long as x+y isn't bigger than z your health gets increased by the full amount of the pickup.
If it is bigger it still get increased, not by the full amount, but it is set to z.
This increased amount of health stays, so it's permanent.

Since we're at semantics - you speak of increasing maximum health.


4.) Again you seem to misunderstand me on purpose.
I said you can't save charges via good play, of cause you have to hit your targets in order not to waste them.
Yet each attack drains a charge.

Allow me to post an example: Monster Hunter (pick any)
There are certain weak spots on an enemy - and others are heavily armored.
If you hit an armored area your weapon will loose a HUGE amount of sharpness and damage will be lowered.

If you're playing well your weapon will come out of the fight with basically no penalty.

As for "sharpness", there are sharpening stones which refill the sharpness of any weapon.

A model like that would be much more satisfying  - since you can:
a.) Choose which weapons charges you refill
b.) Save charges through good play.

P.S: This is what I refer to being constructive - giving examples what could be improved, instead of arguing semantics.



5.) When did I state that I wanted to use when weapon forever? Again you're accusing me of saying something I never said!

I just think that (again, I'm refering to rather rare weapon drops!), you should have a little bit of time to learn about your weapon.
You can't really do that with a weapon which dropps once every 7hours of playtime.

Sticking with the charge model - either sharpness (refill any item of your chocie with a pickup), or a 1-charge per-room model would allow players to get to know the weapon better than charge-loss/swing.

Of cause hardcore players with 200h+ will know every weapon by heart.
I know that some of you also already have a playtime like that ;)

I'm trying to bring a new perspective to the discussion - from somebody who is experienced in the genre, but would consider himself rather casual than hardcore.

Maybe it's just me - but I think it's important to look at a topic in different ways.


6.) I know how large the amount of weapons is.
I took my time reading the sheets.
However, I admit that I don't know any number by heart like you might do.
Again you're making made up assumptions about me which are completely taken out of the air just to make me look like a fool.

I've expacted more of somebody who is a moderator.
You really should stop attacking people in your posts.
Not everybody who doesn't share your opinion is an idiot.

7.)
Quote
So chances are high that the playstyle of a weapon you like might be seen often enough, but finding the exact same weapon again very soon? That's a chance bellow 1%.

Yet, each weapon plays differently and you won't know its effect on enemies unless you test it!
That exactly is why a casual - or even a non-casual- player should be given the ability to swing his weapons for a few times, test it on an enemy to get to know it without instantaniously loosing all uses!
Can't you really see what point I'm trying to make?



Sidenote:
It's nice that you're talking about features which are not implemented in the Alpha version of the game - but can you really blame people for not having experience with these systems?

Again - and Alpha is given out for people to deliver feedback of what is in the game, that's what I did.
I took my time to explain why I dislike the system - and suggested tweaks.
I've played quite a few Alphas and Betas and from my experience that's what being constructive means.

Arguing about semantics definitely does not belong into that section.


The feedback is only as good as the client that is accessable for Alpha testers.
If the feedback might feel outdated, it might be due to the client being outdated.
Maybe it'ld be a good idea to update the Humble-Alpha Client so we're all talking about the same version of the game.

11
Discourse / Re: Limited use, what's the intention?
« on: May 11, 2014, 06:11:52 AM »
Yes, it's simply because it's a weapon :)

I don't feel punished when healing items disappear - because they permanently increase my health.
If I get damaged and loose this health again it's totally my own fault (or the room might have been unfair but I can live with that ;) ).

It's under my control - yes, uses are under my control too: but I can't save them with good play.
The other option is to not use my newly found weapon.
Then I might as well not pick it up at all.


As for pills - they permanently increase stats (or lower them) - this is an effect that stays. If they do lower my stats it still was worth using due to the learning effect which pills I have to avoid.


Also notice that healing items and pills are far more common than special weapons.
It's not the everyday weapon that I mind loosing which might have slightly more damage.
It's the more uncommon ones which you might get every 5 or 10 runs only.

Maybe it's just me - but when I get a new "toy" I want to enjoy, test and play around with it.
Limited charges really discourage this kind of experimenting.

12
Discourse / Re: Limited use, what's the intention?
« on: May 10, 2014, 05:19:34 PM »
"Punished" in a sense: You use it and it disappears.
Maybe it's just me - but in a case like that I always end up feeling afraid that I waste it.

Using it doesn't feel rewarding - but like sacrificing something that you might not be able to get again -  during your next few playthroughs.


To me those limited uses feel like:
"Here, you got a nice 46" flat screen TV. You may watch 7minutes of a 45minute episode on it. After that we break it and you have play the lottery to get it again. If you get another one - well, we'll also break that after 7 minutes. Don't think you can ever watch the full episode!"

(46"TV being the weapon. Episode being a floor/stage. Lottery being the random drop-chance)

13
Discourse / Re: Limited use, what's the intention?
« on: May 10, 2014, 02:30:08 PM »
I do get the idea.

It's just: Isn't rewarding you for using a certain weapon type (Rogue dealing extra damage with daggers) a better solution then punishing, or forcing you to play a certain way?


14
Discourse / Re: Limited use, what's the intention?
« on: May 10, 2014, 01:22:46 PM »
Wouldn't lowering the damage (slightly) for weapons that don't belong to your primary class be a better choice?

Another option would consist in allowing all classes to skill certain perks which increase the damage dealt with a certain weapon type.

Maybe it's just me but I hate the idea of limited uses - even if they recharge.
It feels like the game says "Here look what you could have! You found it - but you can't have it anymore! Here use your starting weapon for the 10.000th time instead (trolololol)"

I can't see anything fun about this (current) mechanic :/


Don't get me wrong - I don't mind using my starting weapon throughout the whole game (like in Zelda) - but it's nice to have a degree of freedom of choice.
If I want to play a floor like that and the next one another - why shouldn't I?

Since weapons are dropped random this is even more of an issue!
You might finally find something useful just to "loose" it after you use it 3 times.


15
Discourse / Limited use, what's the intention?
« on: May 10, 2014, 09:23:48 AM »
So,

I was wondering why weapon pick up weapons have limited use.
It's just plain disappointing to pick up a knew knive or hammer just to see that it has not more than 5 uses.

I'ld understand it if it were throwing weapons, like shuriken - or maybe arrows for a bow.

But why do meele weapons have so few uses?
Sure, some have 15 - but that isn't much either.

It's disappointing to always be forced back into using your starting weapon!
It makes progressing feel worthless!

So, what's the intention?

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